Email conversation
| From | David Hammond |
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| To | Me |
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| Subject | You should update the "Fanboy rants" section |
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| Date | 6 December 2005 05:15 |
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Now that Firefox 1.5 has been released, Firefox's overall support for
CSS has caught up with Opera's. If you look at the bottom of
[URL] you will see that, even
counting voice support, Firefox achieves a slightly higher percentage
than Opera. Granted, there's no objective way to weigh each feature by
its practical importance (and so I applied no such weight system), but
this at least is enough evidence to dismiss any claim of certainty
that Opera has better CSS support than Firefox.
| From | Me |
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| To | David Hammond |
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| Subject | Re: You should update the "Fanboy rants" section |
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| Date | 7 December 2005 09:33 |
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David,
> Now that Firefox 1.5 has been released, Firefox's overall support for
> CSS has caught up with Opera's.
You must be joking right? It is not even close.
Please come back to me when Firefox can do media queries, CSS 2.1 generated
content (that means floating and positioning), compact and non-proprietary
inline-block, projection media, handheld media, tv media, and speech/aural
media.
I know FF has a few things that Opera does not, but Opera beats it by a long
way. Any test that says otherwise is simply incomplete.
Mark 'Tarquin' Wilton-Jones - author of http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/
| From | David Hammond |
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| To | Me |
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| Subject | Re: You should update the "Fanboy rants" section |
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| Date | 7 December 2005 13:49 |
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Haha. Talk about fanboyism. Yes, Firefox is lacking in non-screen
media and it has a few useful properties missing, but Opera also has
plenty of useful things missing and is FAR behind Firefox in CSS 3
support (and since the sections of CSS 3 I tested are Candidate
Recommendations, this is relevant). Opera handled counters
incorrectly, doesn't support custom CSS cursors, doesn't support CSS
table columns, handles quotes incorrectly, and doesn't support a
single CSS 3 selector or pseudo-class (while Firefox supports most of
them). As for CSS 3 media queries, Opera's support for that is far
from impressive as it only supports the height and width aspects and
only in px units. Firefox also supports just about all CSS 3 cursors
and the oh-so-useful opacity property. Add the non-CR CSS 3 features
that it already supports, such as columns, and I don't see how you can
possibly argue that Opera is better in this regard. I'm not denying
that Opera has better support for other media like print and audio,
but as for the rest, there are very few things that Opera supports
that Firefox doesn't, and quite a bit of stuff that Firefox supports
that Opera doesn't.
If you feel my tables are incomplete, please let me know where and
I'll update it accordingly.
| From | Me |
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| To | David Hammond |
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| Subject | Re: You should update the "Fanboy rants" section |
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| Date | 7 December 2005 15:25 |
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David,
> Yes, Firefox is lacking in non-screen media
yes, and by that fact alone, Opera is far ahead. I like the way you brush
over that like it is just a "little thing". Those other media types are as
vast in their implications as any of the other things you have mentioned.
Any comment or belief to the contrary is simply misinformed.
> Opera handled counters incorrectly
Please see the rant about bugs :)
Opera's implementation is (admitedly) not identical with 2.1 because it also
allows counter-increments and resets on a pseudo element to affect the
element scope. This is bizzarely inline with CSS 2 (the spec actually showed
an example like that). And yes, it should be fixed. But it is hardly a big
thing.
> doesn't support custom CSS cursors
true
> doesn't support CSS table columns
I already covered that at the start of the rant :)
> doesn't support a single CSS 3 selector or pseudo-class
Please check Opera 9 before you say that, because you are wrong.
> As for CSS 3 media queries, Opera's support for that is far
> from impressive
About the same as Firefox's incomplete support for multi-column ...
> there are very few things that Opera supports that Firefox doesn't
Like Acid 2 you mean? Oh, no, wait, that's Firefox that is behind ...
> If you feel my tables are incomplete, please let me know where and
> I'll update it accordingly.
Ah, now I see. It is _your_ site you were advertising. Please, do not try to
use me as an attempt to push your site. If you want to make a list, then try
including things like media types with the priority they deserve, and not
just brush them aside. Check that you have got the latest version of the
browsers (Opera 9), and make sure you mention Firefox's lower support for
Acid 2.
Look, I respect Firefox. I really do. But it's CSS support, while fairly
solid, is not as high as Opera's, and you have not convinced me otherwise.
Lastly, it is a rant. Not a discussion. If I wanted to repeatedly defend
myself, I would use a forum. Please read the part that says "No, I don't
want comments. No I don't want emails.".